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	<title>Comments on: Trust Isn&#8217;t Transitive (or, &#8220;Someone fired a gun in an airplane cockpit, and it was probably the pilot&#8221;)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/trust-isnt-transitive-or-someone-fired-a-gun-in-an-airplane-cockpit-and-it-was-probably-the-pilot/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/trust-isnt-transitive-or-someone-fired-a-gun-in-an-airplane-cockpit-and-it-was-probably-the-pilot/</link>
	<description>Anything worth doing, is worth obsessing over.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=MU</generator>
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		<title>By: Real Trust is Reciprocal (or, Human Kill Switches are a Bad Idea) &#171; Obsessed</title>
		<link>http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/trust-isnt-transitive-or-someone-fired-a-gun-in-an-airplane-cockpit-and-it-was-probably-the-pilot/#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator>Real Trust is Reciprocal (or, Human Kill Switches are a Bad Idea) &#171; Obsessed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 15:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/?p=17#comment-65</guid>
		<description>[...] Obsessed Anything worth doing, is worth obsessing over.      &#171; Trust Isn&#8217;t Transitive (or, &#8220;Someone fired a gun in an airplane cockpit, and it was prob... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Obsessed Anything worth doing, is worth obsessing over.      &laquo; Trust Isn&#8217;t Transitive (or, &#8220;Someone fired a gun in an airplane cockpit, and it was prob&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: True Colors Consulting</title>
		<link>http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/trust-isnt-transitive-or-someone-fired-a-gun-in-an-airplane-cockpit-and-it-was-probably-the-pilot/#comment-63</link>
		<dc:creator>True Colors Consulting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 17:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/?p=17#comment-63</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Carnival of Trust Winners!...&lt;/strong&gt;

...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Carnival of Trust Winners!&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: True Colors Consulting &#187; Carnival of Trust Winners!</title>
		<link>http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/trust-isnt-transitive-or-someone-fired-a-gun-in-an-airplane-cockpit-and-it-was-probably-the-pilot/#comment-62</link>
		<dc:creator>True Colors Consulting &#187; Carnival of Trust Winners!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 14:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/?p=17#comment-62</guid>
		<description>[...] his blog, Trust Isn’t Transitive (or, “Someone fired a gun in an airplane cockpit, and it was probably the pilot”) Peter Biddle takes us up 30,000 feet in the cockpit of a jumbo jet. He “fires” home the point [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] his blog, Trust Isn’t Transitive (or, “Someone fired a gun in an airplane cockpit, and it was probably the pilot”) Peter Biddle takes us up 30,000 feet in the cockpit of a jumbo jet. He “fires” home the point [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Charles H. Green's Trust Matters</title>
		<link>http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/trust-isnt-transitive-or-someone-fired-a-gun-in-an-airplane-cockpit-and-it-was-probably-the-pilot/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles H. Green's Trust Matters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/?p=17#comment-61</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Web Trust 2.1 and Web Trust 2.2&lt;/strong&gt;

...as whimsically pointed out in Trust Isn't Transitive by Peter N Biddle, just because someone can fly a 747 doesnt mean they can be trusted to carry a handgun. And though I might buy a book from someone with a good reputation rating on Amazon, tha...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Web Trust 2.1 and Web Trust 2.2</strong></p>
<p>&#8230;as whimsically pointed out in Trust Isn&#8217;t Transitive by Peter N Biddle, just because someone can fly a 747 doesnt mean they can be trusted to carry a handgun. And though I might buy a book from someone with a good reputation rating on Amazon, tha&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: NextDoorToTheLandDownunda</title>
		<link>http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/trust-isnt-transitive-or-someone-fired-a-gun-in-an-airplane-cockpit-and-it-was-probably-the-pilot/#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator>NextDoorToTheLandDownunda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/?p=17#comment-60</guid>
		<description>OK, Thank you Peter.

That was more or less what I hoped you would say. Basically that yes, there was a slight misunderstanding based on language.
There is no activity in the world that is completely free from risk, however this makes you the first person that I have been in conversation with to express the idea of systemic closures of failure modality's via incident analysis, in relation to firearms, or the associated "over-learning" in training of skills and procedures to come out of this analysis.

It is somewhat heartening to hear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, Thank you Peter.</p>
<p>That was more or less what I hoped you would say. Basically that yes, there was a slight misunderstanding based on language.<br />
There is no activity in the world that is completely free from risk, however this makes you the first person that I have been in conversation with to express the idea of systemic closures of failure modality&#8217;s via incident analysis, in relation to firearms, or the associated &#8220;over-learning&#8221; in training of skills and procedures to come out of this analysis.</p>
<p>It is somewhat heartening to hear.</p>
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		<title>By: peternbiddle</title>
		<link>http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/trust-isnt-transitive-or-someone-fired-a-gun-in-an-airplane-cockpit-and-it-was-probably-the-pilot/#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>peternbiddle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 09:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/?p=17#comment-59</guid>
		<description>Hello NextDoorToTheLandDownunda!

I think that you are personalizing my general statement by referring to a specific air crash, rather than their possibility. 

No air crash should be considered acceptable, but the possibility of any one of them must be.

If someone told me to make air crashes impossible, I'd say "ground every plane, remove their engines, and bulldoze furrows across every airfield". 

But that still wouldn't make them impossible, because somebody somewhere has an old Otter sitting in a barn beside a lake in Wisconsin, and that plane can, with a little tinkering, still take off, which means it can still crash... 

Rather than try to prevent this plane from crashing by trying to keep it from ever taking off, we choose instead to try to make sure that when it does take off, the chances of it crashing are lower than they were before the last air crash. We try to get better every time. 

The same should hold true, generally speaking, for ND's and guns. Hopefully people somewhere are reviewing every aspect of this ND and figuring out how to make the chances of another one lower.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello NextDoorToTheLandDownunda!</p>
<p>I think that you are personalizing my general statement by referring to a specific air crash, rather than their possibility. </p>
<p>No air crash should be considered acceptable, but the possibility of any one of them must be.</p>
<p>If someone told me to make air crashes impossible, I&#8217;d say &#8220;ground every plane, remove their engines, and bulldoze furrows across every airfield&#8221;. </p>
<p>But that still wouldn&#8217;t make them impossible, because somebody somewhere has an old Otter sitting in a barn beside a lake in Wisconsin, and that plane can, with a little tinkering, still take off, which means it can still crash&#8230; </p>
<p>Rather than try to prevent this plane from crashing by trying to keep it from ever taking off, we choose instead to try to make sure that when it does take off, the chances of it crashing are lower than they were before the last air crash. We try to get better every time. </p>
<p>The same should hold true, generally speaking, for ND&#8217;s and guns. Hopefully people somewhere are reviewing every aspect of this ND and figuring out how to make the chances of another one lower.</p>
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		<title>By: NextDoorToTheLandDownunda</title>
		<link>http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/trust-isnt-transitive-or-someone-fired-a-gun-in-an-airplane-cockpit-and-it-was-probably-the-pilot/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>NextDoorToTheLandDownunda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 02:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/?p=17#comment-58</guid>
		<description>stepping sideways for a moment,   Peter, you state that  "I consider rare ND’s to be a very unfortunate but frankly acceptable side affect to allowing an armed populace, just as I consider air-crashes to be an acceptable result of flying."

As a pilot, ( albeit as such a low hour pilot) , I DO NOT consider an air-crash as acceptable. I accept that they will happen, but believe that they should be investigated with a view to modifying the system ( be it via engineering, procedures, training or any other means) to prevent a repeat performance.

I would also expect a similar attitude towards firearm safety. Why are ND's considered "unfortunate, but acceptable".

I also wonder if this is partly a language issue, but I am conscious of the fact that sods law can be repetitive if needed. ( I believe in the 'states you call it "Murphy's law", which has a different but similar meaning where I live)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>stepping sideways for a moment,   Peter, you state that  &#8220;I consider rare ND’s to be a very unfortunate but frankly acceptable side affect to allowing an armed populace, just as I consider air-crashes to be an acceptable result of flying.&#8221;</p>
<p>As a pilot, ( albeit as such a low hour pilot) , I DO NOT consider an air-crash as acceptable. I accept that they will happen, but believe that they should be investigated with a view to modifying the system ( be it via engineering, procedures, training or any other means) to prevent a repeat performance.</p>
<p>I would also expect a similar attitude towards firearm safety. Why are ND&#8217;s considered &#8220;unfortunate, but acceptable&#8221;.</p>
<p>I also wonder if this is partly a language issue, but I am conscious of the fact that sods law can be repetitive if needed. ( I believe in the &#8217;states you call it &#8220;Murphy&#8217;s law&#8221;, which has a different but similar meaning where I live)</p>
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		<title>By: John Wayne, United Airways, and Human Factors at the Human Factors Blog</title>
		<link>http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/trust-isnt-transitive-or-someone-fired-a-gun-in-an-airplane-cockpit-and-it-was-probably-the-pilot/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>John Wayne, United Airways, and Human Factors at the Human Factors Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/?p=17#comment-57</guid>
		<description>[...] For an amusing take, see &#8220;Trust is not Transitive.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] For an amusing take, see &#8220;Trust is not Transitive.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Yi Guan on stopping a pandemic before it starts: trust isn&#8217;t transitive [Effect Measure] &#124; NewAge.org</title>
		<link>http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/trust-isnt-transitive-or-someone-fired-a-gun-in-an-airplane-cockpit-and-it-was-probably-the-pilot/#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>Yi Guan on stopping a pandemic before it starts: trust isn&#8217;t transitive [Effect Measure] &#124; NewAge.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/?p=17#comment-56</guid>
		<description>[...] is not transitive, as someone recently pointed out, when reporting on the airline pilot who carried a gun into the cockpit and then accidentally or [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is not transitive, as someone recently pointed out, when reporting on the airline pilot who carried a gun into the cockpit and then accidentally or [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Trust is not&#160;transitive</title>
		<link>http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/trust-isnt-transitive-or-someone-fired-a-gun-in-an-airplane-cockpit-and-it-was-probably-the-pilot/#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>Trust is not&#160;transitive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peternbiddle.wordpress.com/?p=17#comment-55</guid>
		<description>[...] Peter Biddle (via BoingBoing) points out, this logic is flawed because trust is not transitive. An airline [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Peter Biddle (via BoingBoing) points out, this logic is flawed because trust is not transitive. An airline [...]</p>
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